Ok, everyone too, but I wanted to get Leigh's att. I think that I may have solved the mystery of Jackson's eating refusal. Bear with me, this is long
Ok, so last week, someone mentioned adding Nestle quick, vanilla, to hypo. formula to make it taste better, their dr. suggested it,so I thought maybe the taste would help mine to eat, so I called my ped. and he said fine, it is the same sugar that is in regular formula. So I started it, about the same time, he started refusing to eat, I thought nothing of it, I thought reflux. Then 3 nights last week he didn't sleep well, woke up really stuffy, so bad, it sounded like he couldn't breathe, and then he would gag on it, I thought, reflux. But I did think that maybe he wasn't sleeping well because of the sugar in the milk, so I took it out of his nightime bottle. The congestion got better at night, now in hindsight, I see it, I just thought maybe it was getting better.
So, as you may know last night we went rounds trying to eat, for 45 min. then he finally gave in,slept like crapola last night. today, same thing.
I'm sitting there today holding my sleeping angel:angel1: looking at him and I notice that the rims of his eyes were red and they looked watery. This also reminded me of my comment to dh about him having little wrinkles under his eyes, which as some of you know, can be a sign of an allergy. So I thought, hmm... I got out the Nestle box and read the ing. corn syrup first ing. then farther on down, yellow #5. I did a search for allergies to dyes, of course there are people who can not handle dyes.:banghead: I poured out all of his bottles, remixed them without the vanilla and he took it like an angel, no fuss at all. Same thing this evening.
My question, is it the dye????? Or the corn syrup??? The reason I ask about the corn syrup, the book I am reading suggests that if your infant has an allergy to corn, then they can't tolerate Nutramigen (Jackson is on) because it has corn syrup solids in it. If it was the corn syrup would he take his other bottles without the vanilla???:hairpull: :hairpull: Or is it the dye??? I hate to switch him to Allimentum(this is the suggestion in the book, if a corn allergy) it is expensive and I just got WIC straightened out!But, I'm wondering if this may be why he isn't getting much relief from his meds. because of another underlying reason.
HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:banghead: :banghead: What do I do???
Thanks for staying with me!
I need advice!:doh:

Wow, I just ready a study about food dye. Do you know that food dye is cruid oil (pure patrolium)? It is undigestable and can cause all sorts of symptoms - from indegustion to sever abdom pain to hives and even worse. Yellow has been known to cause digestion and hive issues. All food dyes as well as teflon are on thier way to being band. My small soap box: Teflon can kill a bird if you cook with a non-stick pan and have a bird, so what do you think it will do to a baby or your food? In 2009 all telflon will be band in the US due to the serious illnesses it is causing (food for thought). In Canada they have band more food dyes then US. If you go to a health food store you can find milk mixtures w/o food dye. But they do have corn syrup. If you use that and the symptoms persist you will know to try iliminating corn syrup.

I am frantically trying to figure my little guy out too. frustrating!. I am right there with you my sister.

Sue

I was the one who suggested Vanilla Newquik as our dietician said it was ok. So I took a look at the ingredients on our pack and there is no corn syrup in ours and there are no artificial colourings either. It seems that the UK has a different product, something we obviously always have to look out for! Who would have thought?

Just out of interest if he was taking his bottles well, why did you feel the need to try flavouring? Flavouring has always been a last resort for Maya. We had to with Maya as she was on a complete bottle refusal at the time and it was the choice between doing that or tube feeding (she had already been in hospital once for rejecting a hypoallergenic formula).

Also if you look at other toddler formulas in the US such as pediasure, they do have vanilla flavouring in it, so it is quite common. At the end of the day each baby is an individual and you need to do what meets their needs. Vanilla flavouring has really helped turn Maya around and I do not regret doing it.

Sarah, I'm so glad that it helped you all. The UK must be so much better at keeping their people healthy than the us LOL
Anyway, when I say he was feeding well, he was giving me a small battle, nothing like after I started flavoring it. UGH! That was horrible, something just didn't set with him in that stuff! But, he never has been real crazy about his bottles, so I thought that maybe this would make it easier on both of us, especially him and get him to enjoy eating for once. BIG MISTAKE!
Things are better now though.

Wow, I just ready a study about food dye. Do you know that food dye is cruid oil (pure patrolium)? It is undigestable and can cause all sorts of symptoms - from indegustion to sever abdom pain to hives and even worse. Yellow has been known to cause digestion and hive issues. All food dyes as well as teflon are on thier way to being band. My small soap box: Teflon can kill a bird if you cook with a non-stick pan and have a bird, so what do you think it will do to a baby or your food? In 2009 all telflon will be band in the US due to the serious illnesses it is causing (food for thought). In Canada they have band more food dyes then US. If you go to a health food store you can find milk mixtures w/o food dye. But they do have corn syrup. If you use that and the symptoms persist you will know to try iliminating corn syrup.

I am frantically trying to figure my little guy out too. frustrating!. I am right there with you my sister.

Sue
Sue, preach away! :smt091 while I was doing my little research project yesterday, I came upon a canadian website that told about some infant formulas in the US having MSG in them. One is the one that we are on. ARGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:hairpull: Why do manufacturers feel the need to do this??? I am seriously considering going totally organic with the whole family!
Thanks again and hopefully we will figure this out!

Could you swing for a few cans of Alimentum RTF? That one is corn free. That way you could try it before getting WIC switched (trust me, I understand that frustration). IMO it's worth a shot to go corn free. Evan is one that doesn't seem to handle dyes well, red #3 and #40 in particular. They don't do much I don't think, but any med he's taken that's red, hasn't worked (abx). I know, very loose trial, but still.

Could you swing for a few cans of Alimentum RTF? That one is corn free. That way you could try it before getting WIC switched (trust me, I understand that frustration). IMO it's worth a shot to go corn free. Evan is one that doesn't seem to handle dyes well, red #3 and #40 in particular. They don't do much I don't think, but any med he's taken that's red, hasn't worked (abx). I know, very loose trial, but still.
Does Evan ever get stuffy and watery eyes with the dyes??? I think that I will attempt the alimentum. Could the corn be causing his congestion, not getting a whole lot better, etc. etc.??? Thank you!!!!:hug:

WOW. :shock: I had no idea dyes were made from petroleum. :puke:

We eat mainly organic b/c I am nervous about GMOs, pesticides, growth hormones/antibiotics (in meats); however, I had NO IDEA we should also be this afraid of dye! *runs away screaming* (I did know about the dangers of Teflon and we don't use nonstick pans here. Whew!)

I knew that some of the ingredients in formula weren't so terrific, either; however, MSG?! I'm no nutritionist, but I can't see that being much of a benefit!

Thanks for all the info...

Emily--

Pick up a couple jugs (NOT CANS) of RTF Alimentum and give it a try. If it works well, call your doctor and have them fax a prescription for it to WIC. Even if he is not MSPI, Alimentum is so much easier to digest, and it could really help. Now, if there is no change within maybe 4-5 days, I would definitely switch back to whatever your on to save money.

The only thing Evan has ever had w/ dyes in it, the red ones anyways, are his abx he's had so it's hard to know what other symptoms they cause other than for whatever reason, it makes the meds not work for him. Since he's obviously sick anyways, it's hard to tell what else is going on. This last time he was on zythromax and it did nothing, but we saw instant improvement on augmentin which is white. AJ otoh wasn't doing well on the augmentin and they switched him to zythromax!

If corn is part of his problem, then the extra corn from the nesquick could've made things worse, plus formula corn tends to be more processed and contain less proteins than food corn.

Thank you everyone.
Maggie, we are already on Nutramigen, is Alimentum easier on their tummies???? Or are they the same,(except for the corn syrup)

Mary, I am totally thinking about making my family organic. My dh thinks that I read too much and go too far with things. So does my mother. Oh well, it is my children! :hairpull:
Thank you again to everyone!

Except for the corn thing, Nutramigen and Alimentum are the same and it's only the Alimentum ready to feed that's corn free.

Sorry, Emily. My mind is working at about 1/4 of its capability. No sleep for a long long long long time will do that to you. I knew he was on Nutramagin, and I don't have the foggiest clue why I suggested Alimentum. Its the same, you're right. I'm actually thinking of avoiding EVERYTHING with any corn or corn product in it with Noah to see if that can help his tummy issues as well. Puffs have corn in them, so the ONLY finger food he will eat would have to go, and that's no good...

it is a definite possibility for both of our babies. This is crazy! My twins were never sick and we NEVER EVER had any problems with them, not even an ear infection until they were 3 years old!
:hug: I totally understand about the sleep thing!!! Thanks!

I have a corn ingredient list if you want it. Unfortunately just about everything has corn in it so it's a PAIN to avoid.

Jennifer, is it common for someone to be allergic to corn??? I have never heard of it???:smt017 I have a corn ing. list, thank you!! I have a book on allergies that I am currently reading.
You seem to know alot about this, do you think it could be a sensitivity to corn??? Or an allergy? I am just so frazzled right now,:hairpull: like i said, my girls were EASY and never had any problems. I just thought that if it is the corn, and I put him on the RTF Alimentum that he would feel better, he takes his bottles now, just still doesn't sleep well at night, not up alot, but he will wake up at least once and not be hungry.

Just a little update,
got the Alimentum, he has had two bottle of it so far. Just curious, if it is a corn allergy, how long before I will see a difference??? His symptoms aren't that severe(no one but me would notice) but I do.
I'm totally thinking of doing the multiple elimination diet for my household! I noticed this evening that Grace has dark circles around her eyes. Maybe I am just getting too crazy with this whole thing, but I'm wondering. :smt115 I mean, my children are pretty well behaved, for the most part, but they are so wound up in the evening, like they are on speed! They eat alot of carbohydrates and alot of sugar, not necessarily candy, but just sugar in general. Anyway, it will be hard but I may give it a try. My dh and girls will hate me for it.:pain10: but oh well, in the end maybe they will feel 100% better!

Wow! I'm glad Em is on the RTF Alimentum now that I know all of this! Em has always refused powdered formulas. Hmmmmmmmm...she's an expensive kid! ;)

In August, when our ped advised us to switch to hypoallergenic he said we could pick either hypo.

Glad we went with the Alimentum! :iconbigg:

I've always been curious about Noah and corn products. I have given him things like Veggie Sweet Corn Puffs, and milk and soy free corn muffins, and I really think they added some problems to his stomach issues, but he eats so little (just a few bites) its always been hard to tell.

I agree with you Maggie, it really is hard to tell.
Amanda, I guess Emma is going to be high maintenance!!!:smt047 Nothing wrong with that!

Corn is hard to digest anyways, I have always read to never give foods w/ corn in them (baby food and puffs, etc) till at least 18 mos. They will be even harder to digest w/ an MSPI baby on reflux meds. Corn in formula is different though and handled by most. The problem w/ Alimentum is it's still milk based and 10% of MSPI babies will still react to the milk. He may be feeling better b/c he's not getting as much milk protein, but still doing bad b/c of the milk protein, kwim? Here's the problem w/ bfing and things like this, it's extremely hard to do these diets and it takes a lot of work. You'll never know whether he has corn issues, unless you take ALL the corn out of your diet along w/ dairy and soy. I did the total elimination diet and did Neocate w/ Evan. I ate turkey, carrots, pears, and rice. Most babies who can't tolerate Neocate can't handle the corn, but some it was the soy lecithin. The new Neocate, doesn't have the soy lecithin in it now and is supposedly being tolerated better. Now if baby has problems w/ corn and dairy, you basically HAVE to keep bfing and 100% at that b/c there are no corn AND dairy free formulas. This can get very complicated and I think sometimes moms try to complicate it too much, I know I tend to do that. If I had to reccomend a plan for you, I would reccomend a completely dairy/soy free diet and using Neocate to supplement and see what happens. Now dairy/soy free obviously isn't the fix all for everyone, Evan has way more issues than those 2! That's where I would start though and see what happens. I'm also going to add my other ingredient lists to the sticky or start a new thread.

Thanks Jennifer. You are so knowledable on this! :smt047
Question:
We were already on Nutramigen, is the milk protein the same in it as Alimentum> or is there more in alimentume???
Just wondering, that is his main problem! MSPI
Thanks again

Alimentun and Nutramigen have the same amount of 'milk' protein as they're both milk based.

Well, day 2 1/2 of Jackson on Alimentum and he totally refused his bottle this morning. No problems yesterday, I didn't see any difference in his behavior, etc. So, dh was trying to feed him, I took the Ali. bottle and fixed him one with Nutramigen in it, he took it immediately.:smt102 Strange, but oh well, I guess my thoughts may have been wrong on the corn, or not, I don't know, for now I guess I will stick with what he will eat, since he is at least taking that well.