Okay, We have a major poop problem over here @ the "Angels" house and beings there are so many near poop experts over here, I thought I'd give a shot and seeing if I can maybe get some idea's as to our problem.
Shanea is my 28 weeker 2lbs, Shay-Shay is now a lovely & fiesty 4 years old. She has been holding poop since the day she came home from the hospital. She has been on Miralax, Every intestinal ubricant made, every dietary change, suppositories, oh my I could go on & on, but I won't, you all get the idea.
Now, I would not classify here pooping problem as constipation, more like holding it for a really long time, her average for pooping is one time every 7-10 days. When she finally let's loose it will take a couple days to finally come out and it is MASSIVE :shock: Really :shock: ing !!! I am horrified at the mere size. She does "leak" poop most of the time. We go through panties around here like a underwear store :?Also, Shay-Shay does suffer from mild Kidney reflux and has re-occurent bladder infections at least 1 a month usually more. Now, I am a bit leary to take my other chidren to the Dr.s and complain about anything because I worry that there will be something wrong and they will have to go through "hell" like Noah. I have mentioned it to the Dr. before and he wanted to do a barium enema ? To check for something I can't remember, I am just really hesitant. The Dr. is pushing me to get it done and says if it is this thing it can be corrected with a simple surgery, I wish I could remember the name. Has anyone heard of a medical problem common in preemies that causes such severe retention of stools ?

Katy,

I don't have experience with this, but while you're waiting for a response, you might want to read through the last posts in this forum. Someone else recently was talking about the same thing. Possibly "Kim" or "Chako"? I hope that you're able to find some answers here.

Hmmm Katy.. I would go with the doctor on this one. A barium enema is not very pleasent but if she has a bowel problem it would be good to get it sorted. If she leaks poop all the time, it would be good to get something done before she hits school and perhaps gets embarassed with her "accidents". It sounds like it may be a bowel motility problem.
My friend has 2 children, one is 4 years and the other 4 months. They both do/did the same thing..... they don't poop for about 7-10 days and then it ALL comes out. I know with both of them, as babies, she holds/held them over an incontinence sheet and let them go for it!!! :lol: :lol: The 4 year old has grown out of this though.
Seriuosly, I know you have been through hell with Noah and you're probably afraid of what may happen with little Shay Shay but it probably needs looking at more closely and at least your doctor is interested and willing to help.

I have mentioned it to the Dr. before and he wanted to do a barium enema ? To check for something I can't remember, I am just really hesitant. The Dr. is pushing me to get it done and says if it is this thing it can be corrected with a simple surgery, I wish I could remember the name. Has anyone heard of a medical problem common in preemies that causes such severe retention of stools ?[/quote]
Katy, I understand what the doctor is talking about. I read about it in the waiting roomof our exray department where we had zoee's swallow done. I can't explain but I know that because of the holding, the anus and intestianal get stretch and the bowel can leak out. :?: I agree with Janette that "KIM" or Chako can help you. Maybe you can ask the doctor again. Good Luck.

Shannon

She has her physical next week so I guess I will bear it and have him schedule the test. I feel so bad taking her though. Not that she is a stranger to enemas but, it just seems so invasive.

Good luck with the physical, Katy! I hope that the doctor is able to get to the root of the problem! Please let us know how the appt. goes.

HI! How did I manage to miss this poop post?!

My guy is 3.5 and has "chernobyl diapers) for 1.5 years. He has been labelled a stool holder and we have followed diets (very child unfriendly, aren't they?!), mineral oil, and bath salts. He has held sometimes for up to 8 days with 8 tablespoons of mineral oil going in to him at the time. The "run off" poop is horrible. You can not let them know how wretched it is as you make the child feel bad and likely stool hold, but don't you just want to vomit with some of these poops?!

Curran apparently has megacolon which comes from stretching his colon out by being end to end packed with poop. I am at a point now that I do not believe that he is a stool holder and am going to demand that tests be done next month to look for something else as my youngest has just been diagnosed as a silent refluxer and Curran was anything but silent with refluxing up until a few months ago and has gone undiagnosed.

I am probably the last one to ask about this as I am not going with the stool holding bit anymore. The doctor keeps asking me to give him 6 months and I have. I am asking him now to investigate something else.

The one thing that I find invaluable is a food/ stool log book. We write in every day what he has to eat (I mean everything, including snacks, drinks, etc.) and when he went poop and how it looked (ex: loose, mucousy, green, sandy, sticky, super smelly, etc.) and sometimes you will see a pattern after certain foods. Perhaps a trip to the allergist would be in order....

As Curran was full term and huge at birth, I do not know anything about preemies.



Leigh

Oh, how exciting a fellow poop mommy. We have been told the same thing for years. Give her 6 months, give her 6 more. Shanea gets Miralax, along with bottles upon bottles of mineral oil. We let her eat an entire pound of grapes at a time and give her so enough grape juice and apple juice to make the entire block regular. It's ridiculous !!! The biggest problem is once 7-10 days have passed is getting her to actually pass the stool. We are talking huge !!!! I have no clue how something so tiny can pass something so massive. THe only loose or soft thing going on with this child is what she leaks. We have done really good not grossing out on her. We have done the diet thing, positive re-enforcement ect. Shanea has never had diarehea in her life. Which I find very odd don't you ? She's 4 years old since February. We have eliminated all milk products from her diet with the exception of yogurt. The worse part is the smell and her breathe ug !!!! It is quite disturbing. I am to the point now of sick and tired of giving her all this medicine to make her poop and it doesn't help at all. Her ped wanted to do the barium enema a while back and then I chickened out because he said he really thinks she just has princess syndrome. So, I felt like a bad guy putting her through that test. We have her physical next week for pre-k so I am going to tell him to go ahead and schedule the test. I have thought about allergies but, I would think she would have other symptoms like skin or nasal drip or something but there's nothing. The only thing is that once she hasn't pooped for about 6 days, she will run a fever and gets very moody. She also gets major bladder infections. Which I can't imagine is a good thing to get at least 2 times a month. What other tests do they do besides the enema ???

Katy, what is princess syndrome?

Poor Shanae and Curran! I know Katy mentioned the fever and UTIs, but do you also see them start to eat less the longer they go without pooping? Like you both said, where does it all go? I hope you both get some answers really soon!

Shanea does this right after she poops and for several days afterwards she poops and then her eating will taper off once she gets out a few more days. I wish I knew where it all went !

Hi Katy.. there are various tests they could do but some are more invasive than others. A barium enema is not pleasent, sometimes they do scopes (like a colonoscopy).... faceal tests would be easier- you just "scoop the poop" for lab tests. It all depends on what they are looking for.
(((HUGS))) these poor kids......they are going through so much really. It must not be comfortable to be all bunged up like that. AS BEcky says, hoping you get some answers soon.

"Oh, How exciting a fellow poop mommy" LOL! Boy, we need to get out more often for excitement, don't we?!!! :lol:

Well, I guess my boy Curran suffers from "princess syndrome", too! How utterly ridiculous. Find another gastro enterologist. I talked to the allergist who discovered the GERD with my wee one about Curran and his ongoing stool saga and how we would give anything to see a "normal" poop from him and she agreed that he has a problem that needs to be investigated and gave me a bunch of bloodwork to do for allergy and sensitivities. He tested positive last year for peanut and tree nut and carries an epipen. She wrote a note for me to give to our ped gastro-enterologist and it states that he might benefit from reflux meds and investigation in that department. She also told me that if he was not willing to do any tests to let her know and she would refer me to another gastro at CHEO who would be willing to test him. I take him to the gastro on May 10th and back to the allergist on May 30th for follow up.

My gastro is very nice, but like you I am sick of this. He does not entertain anything other than that he is a stubborn child and a stool holder. My pharmacy thinks I am nuts for asking if the mineral oil is available in a vat or barrel, but we have gone through that for sure. They probably think that I bathe in the stuff. Have you tried the "lansoyl"? What wonderful stuff that is to try and sneek into food and drink.

Does Shay Shay gag and wretch from time to time when she is not having a stool? Curran is seemingly starving then once the food hits the table he is gagging and jumps down, but recently has been "blowing bubbles of saliva" at the same time. Then, he is wretched in his behaviour. He is sooooo miserable and we know that his stomach is just killing him. Once he passes the stool he is fine again and hungry. Unlike yours, Curran has only had about 3 solid poops in the last 18 months. His are all very soft and many are the "run off" poop. I could not believe that I took my kid to the gastro with raving diahrea only to be informed that he was constipated! Do you rub her large intestine at all? Sometimes that seems to help my guy, and his joints, especially his knees get so sore and he asks for them to be rubbed. I know it is related as he only asks for the rubs when he is between stools.

Curran's breath reeks. Frequently, he has little blisters in his mouth and it is not the hand, foot, mouth disease. When he is at his worst for not having a stool, his breath will knock you over and the next diaper will make you want to move from the house. I am frequently amazed at the size of the poop, too. I figure I should have to register the passing of some of these poops with vital statistics as they are so HUGE!

I am surprised that she has never had diahrea, but not all kids are prone to it. I have one friend who has a "perfect child" that has never had diahrea, diaper rash, high fevers, nor food problems. He also is never happy, but that is another story... Are her stools rock hard solid? If they are and she is on so much there has to be a problem. The apple juice could be part of the problem I know as juices contain sugar and sugar is not so good for the poop. Curran is still off milk and drinks soy drinks and water. I am not saying that we do not cheat with juices as we do, but if he has too much of it we see even yuckier diapers (it is possible!)

Does she have any tears from the tough poops? Perhaps some desitin creme would help and the epsom salts in the bath. It made a difference for Curran and actually relaxes him (he is a high strung child). Give the epsom salts every bathtime and see if you notice a difference within a week and try to put the desitin creme on at least once a day, just smear a load on or teach her how to do it and it helps to heal any tears.

Why did you eliminate the milk? If she is to be off of milk, then it should be ALL milk in order to be effective. It is REALLY hard to do, but get used to looking at EVERYTHING you buy for the following:

milk, milk products, casein, whey.

Avoid them all. Sometimes a "may contain" is ok, but judge by her poop or gut reaction. Hence, keep the daily log of food intake and you will see patterns emerge for sure.

Not all kids who have allergies to food get runny noses. Not all kids who have food problems will test positive for food allergies. There are "gut allergies" that are not picked up by conventional testing. I shall ask my allergist for some info sheets on the gut allergies when I see her on May 2nd and will email them to you. Your best way to figure it out is the food log and mark any reactions, including behaviour. See if you can get the book "Is This Your Child" by Doris Rapp as it is great for identifying some allergies and food sensitivities.

Curran runs fevers when he has not pooped for awhile either. And moody does not describe him, he is out of this world when he is in pain. He is naturally a very gifted verbal child and he does not talk or make sense when this happens, rather he screams bloody murder and writhes around. It is hard to deal with. This happens because our kids are filled with poison and need to get it out! Curran gets sick so often that it is ridiculous. This is also why I am putting my foot down with the gastro and telling him to investigate something else.

I am trying to figure out if I would do something invasive on Curran and I really do not know. I would need to know exactly what they would be doing, why, and whether or not the same diagnosis could be made with some test less invasive. What are they looking for?

Have you looked up irritable bowl syndrome? I believe that you do not have to alternate between diahrea and constipation. Or are they thinking that she has a sphincter problem? Or are they planning biopsies? As in Crohns or Celiac? Find out some details and let us know.

One thing that I am thinking of for Curran is to start some "probiotics" as candida infections and lack of flora in the gut can cause many problems. I am starting them next week. Perhaps due to Shay Shay's recurring bladder infections and poop problems you might consider investigating that as well. Sometimes the body gets unbalanced due to so many infections and the antibiotics.

Leigh

Just curious how things are in the poop department at the "angels house"?!

Sorry for the long rant prior. I am full of angst and have some anger management issues over "stool holding" labels of late. LOL! :)

Leigh

Well, Thank you for asking, Shanea is still irregular we are on day 7 now so by tomorrow she should be stainng her panties and stinking all day, her breath is starting to reak again and her little tiny tummy is hard as can be. We are waiting for the referral for the Barrium Enema study and I guess we will go from there. Oh, I liked your other post, very insightful...Shanea actually bleeds so bad after she makes her BM because it is so HUGE !! I can not even describe how large they are because no one would believe me. I usually have to put kleenex down on her panties so she doesn't bleed through, there have been times I thought she would bleed to death. I just can't seem to figure any ryhme or reason to any of this.

Oh Katy... I am SOOOO pleased she is going for teats. That bleeding etc must be so very unpleasent and painful for her. It sounds like she is so very constipated, poor thing. When do you think the barium enema will be??

Oh Katy...How terrible for her! It sounds like there's some tearing everytime she goes. I'm glad you're going to get some tests done.

Oh I hope that you can get the test done soon! It sounds very pain for her!


Shannon

It will be in the next couple of weeks. The weirdest thing about her BM's is that they do not classify as constipated stools which would be small hard pebble like stools. Shanea passes one solid stool every 7-10 days that are so freaking big they would make a grown man cringe. I have no idea where in the world the child holds it. I've decided she must be hollow inside :) Thus, that is why she bleeds so bad when she does poop!

I am cringing every time I read that. Good luck. Poor little one!


Shannon

I am cringing every time I read that.
Me too! :(

When is the barium study? And have you been given any indication as to what they suspect is the problem?

Have they looked into celiac testing? Try to take a stool and "float it" (see if it floats in the toilet. Have they mentioned "malabsorbtion" at all? Any cases of thryroid disease, celiac, or crohn's disease in the family?

What about putting a lightdays panty liner in her panties?

I hope that she is tested SOON! Curran sees his GE on the 11th (I think that I posted the 10th) and I want some tests done. Keep us posted!

{{{Shanae}}}


Leigh

Leigh, I've heard that the healthier stools are supposed to float, so how does that relate to celiac disease?

I thought unhealthy stools are supposed to float- the ones that have all fat etc in them??? Gee, I'm glad we have a forum for this type of talk!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Sarah is right, unhealthy stools that indicate a malabsorption problem will float. Healthy stools are to sink. I have some info on celiac disease as we were looking at it as a possibility for Curran, so I will find it and post it.

Leigh

Wow, I have learn alot about poop so far. I never know anything about floating or un floating poops before i read this thread! :? Glad we have this forum! :lol:


shannon

Okay, Noah's poop floats even his diarrhea ! Shanea's sink fast and hard, so I don't think malabsorbtion is the cause. The Dr. says he is checking for 2 things with the barium Enema-
#1- to see if the end of the intestine that dumps into the anal canal is deformed or damaged.
#2- to see if the intestines are able to contract the poop down the right path or if it just holds until the weight pulls it down which could indicate a problem with the brain and the poop department communicating.
It will be in the next week or two that we go. I'll let you all know as soon as they schedule it and what they say it all entails.

Keep us posted! I am glad that Shanae's stools do not float as bulky and floating stools are a sign of malabsorption. However, it is disturbing that Noah's do. Has he been checked for anything?

Leigh

Yes, he has chronic malapsorbtion most likely from an underlying auto-immune disorder. He has been tested for everything and has even had the mutation gene for CF checked for. He has some minor issues in his blood work that the geneticist found when he was younger but, it is one of those wait and see things. What's even scary is that not only do 99% of Noah's stools float they are also usually white or pale yellow which of course means liver problems, his liver panel is always funky but, never funky enough to explain why it happens.