Do any of your kids have great or good eye contact and have a genuine need for contact and/or massage? I know this is contrary to usual accepted parameters dealing wtih autism but was curious about it.

Hi Leigh

I don't have any first hand experience with this, but my closest gf son was diagnosed by one Dr with autism and another with PDD (I hope that's right!!)
He does respond to his name and has good eye contact
He also is very affectionate, and always hugging/leaning on etc my friend
Don't know if that helped any

Hi Leigh

I don't have any first hand experience with this, but my closest gf son was diagnosed by one Dr with autism and another with PDD (I hope that's right!!)
He does respond to his name and has good eye contact
He also is very affectionate, and always hugging/leaning on etc my friend
Don't know if that helped any

It does. I was fully under the impression that autistic kids did not have good eye contact ever and certainly were not into touch at all, let alone requesting and needing it so much. Did he get two different diagnosis from two different doctors? I know PDD is on the autism spectrum, too.

Catherine maintains eye contact, excessively so. She wins all staring contests and will bore holes right through you. She does not, however, like to be touched -- only limited amounts and on her terms. I've always got aspberger syndrome in the back of my mind for her, but from what I've read, they tend to have exceptional verbal skills, which she does not.

Catherine maintains eye contact, excessively so. She wins all staring contests and will bore holes right through you. She does not, however, like to be touched -- only limited amounts and on her terms. I've always got aspberger syndrome in the back of my mind for her, but from what I've read, they tend to have exceptional verbal skills, which she does not.

Exactly what I have read about Aspergers as well. Ruled out for my babbling 3 year old. How on earth do they keep all these conditons and syndromes and such straight?! arg.

My best friends son has Aspergers and he is exceptionally gifted with speech. He rarely looks you in the eye and is VERY touchy and feely. He always has been a hugger. He also has Tourettes, I just found out. Only took them like 8 years or so to get to that diagnosis. He is the biggest sweetie you will ever meet and has shocked me with how brilliant at times he truly is.

I did not know you considered Aspergers for Catherine. :hug:

When people think of Autism, they usually think of the kid rocking back and forth with no eye contact and who absolutely refuses to speak/be touched/etc. While this can happen, that's usually reserved for severe cases.

It's a spectrum disorder, which means kids can have symptoms ranging from mild to severe. In many cases, kids with Autism will have periods of eye contact. Some will avoid it all together and still others will, as Lesley said, bore holes into you with long periods of staring. Small children will often stare like that as they take things in; however, they learn over time the socially acceptable length of time to look at someone/something and when to break eye contact. A child on the Autistic spectrum doesn't always learn/understand this and will had difficulty knowing when to make/break eye contact.

As for massage--it's along the same lines. All humans crave physical contact sometimes; however, we learn over time and begin to understand (usually as young children) what's socially appropriate, when it's appropriate to request/dole out contact and how long to keep it up. The sort of massage you've talked about with Iain might well be more of a soothing repetition for him (repetition is very soothing--things like spinning, pacing, rocking, etc. help calm/soothe kids when they're upset).

Does that make sense?

Great response Mary. Just to add ...you do not have to have all the sterotypical symptoms to have an autism diagnosis. If a child has certain number of behaviors consider within the spectrum then the diagnosis may apply.


Ok, now for my own soapbox (hope you don't mind, but may give you some in sight as to why children with Autism may show varying degrees or varying symptoms) There has been a great increase in diagnoses of autism in the last 15 years. While many believe there is an epidemic of this disorder there are other reasons for the profound increase. For one awareness of the disorder has increased. Two the diagnostic critertia for diagnosis relaxed somewhat to include many children who before would have not been considered autistic but perhaps learning disabled or developmental disabled. Relaxing the criteria allowed for more children to be diagnosed with autism. Special education programs in the school systems receive funding based on how many children they have within a certain category of handicapping conditions. Autistic programs receive greater funding and have lower teacher to student ratios (in Delaware which has a large autistic program the ratio is 4:1- that's right 4 students per teacher!) which makes highly attractive to school systems and parents to have their child diagnosed with autism in order to receive better or at least more services.

Here's my question Pam... what causes it? Or do they know? Is it something that is there from birth?
Our early intervention person told me that around this area, she has two children that have been tested and are autistic and they were also tested for lead levels and both had very very high levels. This area is ontop of a lead mine. So, it is in the dirt, etc. I'm just curious. They are wondering if this isn't one link, I suppose.

Ok, now for my own soapbox (hope you don't mind, but may give you some in sight as to why children with Autism may show varying degrees or varying symptoms) There has been a great increase in diagnoses of autism in the last 15 years. While many believe there is an epidemic of this disorder there are other reasons for the profound increase. For one awareness of the disorder has increased. Two the diagnostic critertia for diagnosis relaxed somewhat to include many children who before would have not been considered autistic but perhaps learning disabled or developmental disabled. Relaxing the criteria allowed for more children to be diagnosed with autism. Special education programs in the school systems receive funding based on how many children they have within a certain category of handicapping conditions. Autistic programs receive greater funding and have lower teacher to student ratios (in Delaware which has a large autistic program the ratio is 4:1- that's right 4 students per teacher!) which makes highly attractive to school systems and parents to have their child diagnosed with autism in order to receive better or at least more services.

You're so right--many very young kids (at least in the clinic where I worked) were initially diagnosed with PDD before going on to an Autism diagnosis, for various reasons (perhaps the clinicians were on the fence and didn't want to stick a child with a label, the child met most but not all of the criteria for mild Autism, it was difficult to discern whether the delays/issues we were seeing were the result of MMR, etc.). Those kids could never quite get the services that they could if they had a full blown Autism diagnosis. Unfortunately, this meant that some children who really didn't quite meet the criteria for an Autism diagnosis either had to be given the diagnosis in order to get services or got stuck with substandard care because they weren't "disabled" enough.

As for the lead levels, etc. that someone else asked about, we never found research that made a definite link between lead levels and autism. Also, strong links were never found between immunizations, food additives, etc. Some studies did appear to show some relationship; however, there's no explanation for kids who are diagnosed as Autistic and have low lead levels, are not immunized, etc. However, a quick search online would have you believe that everything from food additives to lead to caffeine consumption causes Autism. Many sites also peddle "miracle cures" for Autism and should be viewed with caution.
(Pam--has PAGER done reserach into this or have they reviewed any of the literature pertaining to links b/t Autism and lead/food additives/preservatives, etc.?)
Several of our docs are doing a longitudinal study of children who have beed diagnosed with Autism--they believe there are a combination of factors that contribute to this instead of one hard-and-fast reason. (Much like cancer--there is not always a "reason" a person is afflicted with it. Sometimes, unfortunately, terrible things happen and we don't always know why.)

Emily, Mary is right there have been no definitive studies that show a link between lead levels, the MMR vaccine, food dyes, inability to process gluten etc. There are many groups that do however feel strongly that one of these or something else are the cause of autism and can make persuasive arguments that would have you believe them. Congress recently increased the budget for Autism research but like Mary said it may something you can not find a definitive cause for all cases.

Mary, I do not know if PAGER has done any type of research or review. I can ask Beth if she has any info as she attends GI conferences as frequently as she can. Children with Autism do have GERD at a much higher rate (75%)

Mary, I do not know if PAGER has done any type of research or review. I can ask Beth if she has any info as she attends GI conferences as frequently as she can. Children with Autism do have GERD at a much higher rate (75%)

That's exactly why I asked. Autistic kids and those with Down Syndrome seemed to have higher rates of GERD (along with the preemies we saw, too). I remember so many of their parents telling me about the kids' GI issues but ever gave it much thought. Since I'm not an SLP, I didn't delve into the feeding issues.

Leigh--I'm really sorry to have hijacked your thread. :oops: :oops: :oops: Is any of this helpful to you, or do you wish we'd just start a whole new thread? :oops: :hug:

Emily, Mary is right there have been no definitive studies that show a link between lead levels, the MMR vaccine, food dyes, inability to process gluten etc. There are many groups that do however feel strongly that one of these or something else are the cause of autism and can make persuasive arguments that would have you believe them. Congress recently increased the budget for Autism research but like Mary said it may something you can not find a definitive cause for all cases.

Mary, I do not know if PAGER has done any type of research or review. I can ask Beth if she has any info as she attends GI conferences as frequently as she can. Children with Autism do have GERD at a much higher rate (75%)


Well, now that is odd. That they have GERD at a higher rate.