Just curious if anyone has a child who has echolalia and an "abnormal" speech development who has come around to "normal" speech development? And can you tell me about the echolalia that presented?

Leigh I have worked with children whose speech development would be considered "abnormal" but they use echolalia functionally. For example, I have used the Picture Exchange Communication System (PECS) with many children. This system was developed for Autistic children and has them give a picture to a communication partner in order to establish functional spontaneous communication. When the child gives me a picture I always interpret their communication verbally and in the first person. If they give a picture of a book, I will say "I want book." and give them the requested book. Often many of these children begin echoing these interpretations and therefore they now come to me, hand me the picture and say "I want book".

I have also worked with children where their echoing was not functional. I had a child who liked to throw toys. His echoing became a self stimulating behavior. He would throw a toy then say "pick it up" (something his family,teachers said to him when he threw) then pick up the toy and throw it again etc. , etc.

Thanks Pam. I am worried as I have been told Iain is not developing speech normally as he often goes on "speech strike" sometimes for a week or two where NOTHING is said, just babbling. Now we find that he learns something new and we "lose" all else which came before. When I talked to our SLP yesterday she said the first 50 words are tough and this does happen, but not the way it does for Iain. For instance, he was 100% consistant with Mommy and Daddy (including his interpretation of the signs) for months and now he will run to me with "Daddy" and "Mommy" to Bill. Plus, the signs are gone. He is SO frustrated.

His speech is not meaningful. He picked up a sentence "Where's the ball" that he learned from our play (focusing in on words as the Hanen program taught us and one of the words was ball) and yet he uses it for no apparent reason. He sits at the table and says it, in the middle of the floor, in the bath, you get the idea. He is now "chunking" phrases as we have "where's the baby" and "there it is" too but all else is gone. He stands in the middle of the living room shrieking and when we run through a list of things we find he wants milk. He used to do his sign for milk and actually say "mk" and that is gone again.

He is being developmentally screened and apparently has many indications of PDD NOS. I have basically ignored them and put this down to a development delay due to his poor start but really I do see it progressing.

I am finding it difficult to redirect when he uses wheres the ball as I say "no ball" and redirect with what I think he wants such as "want milk" or "milk please" and yet I get "wheres the ball".

I know the lights are on, just have to find the switch I guess.

Leigh, I understand wha toyu are talking about...Hobbes does that as well. He can be saying a word thne it stops. We are going through that right now. He has words that he had been saying and now have stopped. He also echoes alot of what he hears from Dora the explorer, or the talk that we have had with him, ei. We tick him and he will go tick me for more . Then two hours later, you hear him in the bath going Oh, tick me and laughing as if someone is. As for the speech stopping, I have been told that when a child who is delayed stopped doing something that they were profressing, it is b/c they have started doing too much and need a break or they are focu alot in another area of developing. For Hobbes, we were told it could happen if he is having a growth spurth.

I didn't know if this happens you any but I know that Iain will get back on track soon b/c he has a great mom working with him.

Thanks Shannon. How many words does Hobbes have now? It is apparently when they do not have those first 50 words that they can come and go but I have been told it is very abnormal to chunk and then lose. I am just trying to figure out if he truly does fit on the spectrum or not.

My intake assessment is likely the end of October, paperwork in since July 13th. After that I guess they decide if he needs testing and what services he may require. I just hate waiting again. At this rate it will be the summer of next year before he has help and I do not want to spin my wheels until then.

Leigh, I just noticed your PM and I replied to it with the information on this post in mind as well. I often forget to check to see if I have PMs here since I do not post much but I will check them more closely in case you want any further information. I can understand your frustration in not wanting to wait to help Ian.

Hobbes has over 50 words now, I think. For an child with autism, it can be where they lose chunks of words at a period of time. Sometimes I have been told that the child can stop talking for a period of time of couple of day, weeks or months. It just depends on the child and where they are. We called in what Hobbes does a block period of time. He right now is in the block period of time where he is doing do better at making eye contact but his words are stopping a bit.

Leigh, I hope you didn't mind this but I did read in oyur post where you said there are many indictions(sp) of PDD nos which maybe you know or didn't know, that is part of the spectum. If you can start to get help for that now then it will great to do it and if it turning out him doesn't have it then you have had some extra therpary in speech and sensory issues. KMIW?

I do know of a site (if I can find it) where you can do a test where it will say if you should be concern if your child is autistic or in the sprectum. I see if I can find it and Pm it to you.

Leigh, I just noticed your PM and I replied to it with the information on this post in mind as well. I often forget to check to see if I have PMs here since I do not post much but I will check them more closely in case you want any further information. I can understand your frustration in not wanting to wait to help Ian.

Thanks Pam. I think your suggestion of pictures is a good one as sign comes and goes too. We have been using it since last year and have made little headway. Thanks again and I may bend your ear on this one again.:wink:

Hobbes has over 50 words now, I think. For an child with autism, it can be where they lose chunks of words at a period of time. Sometimes I have been told that the child can stop talking for a period of time of couple of day, weeks or months. It just depends on the child and where they are. We called in what Hobbes does a block period of time. He right now is in the block period of time where he is doing do better at making eye contact but his words are stopping a bit.

Leigh, I hope you didn't mind this but I did read in oyur post where you said there are many indictions(sp) of PDD nos which maybe you know or didn't know, that is part of the spectum. If you can start to get help for that now then it will great to do it and if it turning out him doesn't have it then you have had some extra therpary in speech and sensory issues. KMIW?

I do know of a site (if I can find it) where you can do a test where it will say if you should be concern if your child is autistic or in the sprectum. I see if I can find it and Pm it to you.

You sent me that link and I thank you for that as it was very helpful. I did do the test and found Iain is moderate with me downplaying some of his issues. I really did not know what "resolved" meant so I should go back and redo it with that understanding again. Regardless, he is on the spectrum if I take that test to heart.

I am working on the help now but as you know it takes forever to get it. There are many other children out there much worse off than Iain in front. I just need to know where to go for information to help him until we officially get in I guess.

Sorry I didn't really that i send that to you as well. I know what you mean. The pictures are something that we are just starting in September. Can you please let me know how it goes with Iain using them? I know Hobbes does it in his nursery school with his one on one worker but not here b/c we are not sure about it.

Pam just suggested the pictures to me today so I have no clue where to get them, what to do, etc. It may be a bit before I am back to you on that! I will hunt next week for this as he does love books so maybe he maxxed out on signs, who knows.

Ok...Here is what they do for Hobbes...They took pictures with their digital camera and then print them off of objects that he uses at home and in school. It helped him to vision the objects better than pictures that are drawn. So they took pictures of milk, pop, his favorite food, the bathtub, his shoes, clothes, outside (backyard)etc. We then were to put the in a binder or on the door say for the bathtub, his clothes on his door or the wall by his drawer. I think that every therapist does it different for each child's need. We have to work on it again b/c we could not understand how we were to communicate with them.

Pam, what is better? Taking pictures of objects in your home that the child uses or a book of drawn pictures?

I usually start with commercially available pictures. I have an older version of Boardmaker which is a computer software program used to make picture boards or single pictures. It is a pricey program available through Mayer-Johnson (http://www.mayer-johnson.com/MainBoardmaker.aspx?MainCategoryID=5419) but also available from Mayer-Johnson are PCS card sets which are boxes of 225 single pictures http://www.mayer-johnson.com/MainProdCat.aspx?MainCategoryID=5343&CategoryID=5344&SubCategoryID=5445 They used to offer books of the PCS symbols which you could copy and cut to use but I don't know if that is still offered - it would be the most affordable option granted you have access to a copier.

The reason I start with them is that many children on the spectrum have great attention to details visually and do just fine with these simple colored line drawings and it is easy to generate these pictures. If I find they are having trouble discriminating among the pictures I then may introduce photographs or another great resource is taking pictures of toys or household items from magazines, catalogs or from the packaging the item comes in. This might be a great place for you guys to start at home.

The Picture Exchange Communication System or PECS is a highly acclaimed communication system developed by the then director and behavioral psychologist of the Delaware Autistic program, Dr. Andy Bondy and a SLP named Lori Frost. I took a semester course given by Andy as he was developing the training manuel for PECS (in fact many of the examples I used as class projects are examples in his book!)

The program starts by having the child hand a single picture to another person in exchange for a desired item. Physical assistance by another adult is used to facilitate the exchange until the child becomes independent. The child progresses through phases of the system learning to retrieve a picture from a central location (their communication notebook, sometimes when I treat in the home I use the family fridge and hang the pictures with magnets) to give it to their communication partner to discriminating among many pictures to communicate their wants and needs. Here are some links about PECS http://www.pecs.com/WhatsPECS.htm (there is more info from this link if you look under the general information tab as well) PECS products are also available.

Using picture boards is another form of using pictures where many pictures are placed together on a page and the child points to the picture that represents the item he wants. Of course the child has to be able to discriminate among the pictures to be effective so starting with a few pictures per page (2-4) is a good idea. For example you could post a drink page on the fridge with 2-4 pictures of available drinks so if the child go to the fridge wanting something you can direct him to the picture board. I always use physical and visual cues to get the child to attend to and point to the pictures as these cues are easier to fade then verbally telling the child to point to the pictures and of course the goal is to fade prompts so the child communicates spontaneously.

This may give you a start but implementing an augmentative/alternative communication system that will be effective may be difficult without the support of a SLP familiar with using them. I'd say give it try though b/c whatever you decide to try even if it helps a little would be a great start.

With Jessie, who falls in the autism spectrum, we used signing and PECS with her. After losing her speech at 18 months, her speech therapist started with basic signs (more, all done, help) and Jessie actually began to use these words after a few months. She learned a few more signs (cookie, eat, drink, movie) and her speech began to return very slowly. She never did the whole echolalia thing so I have no experience there. When she started special ed classes at three years old, they started using PECS with her. She had a notebook at school with all her picture cards and her teacher would make her a schedule everyday so she knew what to expect as she did not transition well from activity to activity. I also made a notebook at home with picture cards from her teacher and that worked great for us. We did schedules too for our evening and weekend routines. Jessie took real well to the actual PECS cards, which are drawn pictures. I had taken pictures with my digital camera and made her cards of her toys and things, but she didn't seem to like them much. Some times it takes a lot of experimenting to find something that works. We had so much success in using PECS. It seemed to help that we used it at home and school... she had lots of consistency. Here are two pictures of Jessie's notebook I made for her. For the schedule, I would use a long horizontal piece of paper with velcro on it. I would just attach the cards all down it and Jessie would follow the order of it.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j233/jenna11404/PECS2.jpg
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j233/jenna11404/PECS1.jpg

Sure hope this helps. Let me know if you have any questions about PECS... we used it for almost two years. Jessie's speech is almost getting close to being where she should be for almost five years old.

And sure hope the assessment for your son can get moved up... October seems so far away when you have so many questions. Keep us posted.

Wow. Thank you all so very much for all this information. I have a feeling that Iain may do better with the picture book than signs since he has stalled so badly with signs and absolutely LOVES books. Seeing that communication book made lights go on for me as when my Mother first had her stroke and was global aphasic we used a book similar to that for her until she gained speech again.

I can see where this would be great at daycare too to help ease some frustration there if I can get them to use it. What a great idea!

I am going to go and digest some of this great info and I am sure I will have questions. :wink:

By the way, today out of the blue we had a return of the word "mo" for more. It was when he was sitting in his car seat and did signify he wanted a cracker. I was overjoyed as it has been a few months.

I was wondering if your mom had a picture book, Leigh b/c I know alot of my clients who have had strokes have used them. Yahoo for the word "mo"! Way to go Iain!

I was wondering if your mom had a picture book, Leigh b/c I know alot of my clients who have had strokes have used them. Yahoo for the word "mo"! Way to go Iain!

Thanks Shannon. :) I am waiting for something else, but it is a "where's the ball" kind of day today. Regardless, I am estatic.

I *think* I know where that book is, it should still be with my Mom. I do recall that it was black and white so I will have to get the coloured ones, but this may be a good start for Mr. Iain.:wink: Until I get the other book(s).