I know our recording box showed two Ph numbers, the ph of the stomach itself, which was often about 0, (at first |I thought this ws the number I was supposed to be looking at and was horrified that it was always below 4!!) then a second number which was mostly above 4, which measured the acidity in the throat itself. As I said on another post, at breakfast time, this throat number was below ph4 for about two hours, suggesting a number of reflux episodes whilst digesting food.

My question is, what results actually constitute a "reflux" diagnosis? Is it if the ph in their throat goes under 4 at any point. or is it to do with how many times it goes under 4 in 24 hrs? or is it to do with the lowest number thier throat ph reaches?Or is it do with if they reflux only when eating or all the time regardless of what food and drink they take in?

If you did a ph probe on a person without "reflux", would their ph levels ever dip under 4 or would the acidity in their throats always be above 4 do you think?

I guess I'm just worried about our lack of data when ours was done and am wondering whether a few hours of refluxing after breakfast really suggests a problem. The doc said to us "we can either do the whole test again for another 24 hrs) or we can "assume" that because he did have an episode of reflux that it is this that is causing his other symptoms.

I asm just sooooooooo annoyed still that thye didn't do the test properly and that the results were ruined. AHhhhhhhhhhh! (sorry to go on. I'm just cross!)
Love Beth
x
P.S Thanks for listening to me ramble on!

I don't think I am going to be any help at all, but I do know that acidity, frequency, and duration ALL play a part in the diagnoses.
If the reflux frequently like hundreds of times during the test acidic or not quickly or not, you got a GERD thing going on. If they don't reflux frequently, but when they do it's very acidic there's a problem too, and if their reflux episodes last a long time (I've heard some say over 30 minutes before) then there's a problem too. There's also a million shades of grey in between. So many combos that can happen.

I also know that different equipment is used depending on where you had it done so the numbers all mean different things depending on the computer system that was used and they vary widely.


Eric's probe:
They first figured out his normal PH by sticking his fingers in 2 different chemicals. His normal PH was between 7.8 and 7.6. Any time the numbers went bellow this meant a reflux episode or eating/drinking was occurring (because all our food has different levels of PH) So Eric's lowest read was 4 and that is quite low and acidic (this only happened once for about 3 minutes), but I have heard others say there's read bellow 0 at times so obviously you just can't compare the PH tests because if Eric's had read bellow 0 he'd more than likely wouldn't survive it LOL.

I would call and ask either the GI or the tecs that use the equipment just how yours works and what it means. They do vary a lot, too much to really compare numbers, that's why the GI's interpretation is so important.

Oh and Beth it sounds like you had a double PH probe which is WAY cool and just what they should have done for your child's symptoms. Eric should have had a double as well. There's even a triple probe that measures the LES UES and the larynx PH.

I'm sorry your PH probe didn't go well and you didn't get complete results. That's sucks so hard.

Have they changed treatment in any way?
I can't remember did your results come back "normal" or minimal, or something? Eric's came back normal. I feel like I got nothing from the probe at all, except it was cool to see the PH change when I knew he wasn't feeling well AKA refluxing. Kinda made me feel less crazy.

Hi Beth, I am sorry that this is so confusing. I know that they are different everywhere, we have talked about them a lot here and no ones seem the same.

Our probe measured a reflux episode when the pH went below 4, Parkers dipped to just a bove 4 a lot and none of these were calculated. We then determine how long the longest epsiode was for, then they put all the scores together and work out a number, ours was 32. Anything higher than 11 is reflux.

This is called the Boix Ocha score (sp?) and this is what ours was gauged on.

Did they take you off the meds before and was he off them long enough?

Just to confirm what everyone said: It is the Boix oshoa score and 11 and below is normal. 12 and above is GER (as everyone refluxes some of the time). It is a composite score: an episode is anything below 4. It measures how many episodes and how long they last, which is very important. If it clears quickly, it is not as bad as if it takes long. Ours was a horrific 40, 219 episodes in 24 hours with many lasting as long as 17 minutes.So, since she had many , long and low ph episodes of 1.2 or 1.3, she scored really high.


I hate to contradict but a ph scale runs from 1.0 to 14. Pure Hydrochloric acid is 1.0 (like stomach acid) and pure base is 14. Neutral is 7.

So your reading of 0 is questionnable to me.


We all have dips below 4, but not often and not long, which is why normal is up to 11 on the boix oschoa scale

Thanks to you all and especially Jojo for your very informative reply. From what you said, I really am not sure if my son has reflux, as we only had the probe in for about 10 hrs and in that time there was significant dips in the graph that went up and down over a two hour period, but I have no idea how long each epsiode was exactly and we couldn't achieve a total score, as it wasn't in for 24 hrs.
Love Beth

What does your GI say . I think two hours below 4 is very significant

Beth, I have no answers to the pH probe although I went through it myself. I think Minnie is the expert here! Anyway, I know Roni decided on her on to test what Shae-Lynne was puking and thought of an old science project. She actually bought litmus paper and tested it on Shae's vomit. It seemed when Shae was cranky and vomiting it was very acidic. When Shae vomited and was not cranky it did not show that it was acidic. Makes sense to me. Best wishes

Jean,
I always thought I should test Eric's saliva with litmus.
Since he isn't a puker there's no way for me to test vomit, but the days when his drool is uncontrollable and thick (even has a color to it) I just know it's partially vomit or something like water brash, and I've been tempted to test with litmus paper several times. Nice to know I'm not the only one:wink:

LOL, Leigh and I have had a similar conversation.. I actually asked the Dr and he said it wouldn't be accurate in Parkers case, seeing as he is silent, the whole digestion etc, will change the acids in the saliva.

E-mail Roni and see what she says about the paper. I am going by memory and it was awhile ago.

E-mail Roni and see what she says about the paper. I am going by memory and it was awhile ago.

EH,
No need now. The zegerid is doing the job. I just really should have had him on a PPI all this time. (kicking myself)
I just think it's cool that someone else thought of it. Makes me feel a little less weird Ya know.